How Long?

Part 5
Post 183

At the end of post, Part 4 titled 70 Years we were left waiting for God’s reply to the question of; How long will your mercy be delayed on Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah? (Zechariah 1:12 paraphrased) and we are learning that the question is regarding a period far bigger than the 70 years of the Babylonian Captivity of 606 BC - 536 BC.
But just how big of a period?
THAT IS the question!

HOW LONG?

* * *

“And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words.
So the angel that communed with me said unto me,
Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts;
I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with great jealousy.” Zechariah 1:13-14

The specific wording and structure of this narration is critical when understanding what it is actually saying;
The angel understands to tell Zechariah to prophecy God’s great jealousy, by “hearing” the temper of God’s words more the words themselves. It was the “good and comfortable” in the words God used when answering the angel that was translated into his instruction to Zechariah. We know this because we are told the temper but not the words.

The full understanding of God’s heart in the matter is very important to the Jews who have been convinced over 1,878 years that God has utterly abandon them. (70 AD- 1948 AD and still continues though some temporary relief has been provided.)

But notice in both the question of Zechariah 1:12, and the answer of Zechariah 1:14, the Temple is not mentioned, nor the nation, but only the cities of a specific portion of the nation, including the Holy City and the concept of permanence in Zion its Spiritual life as enduring as a mountain. (Micah 4:1-2)

Zion; 6726 Tsiyown; the same (reg.) as 6725; Tsijon (as a permanent capital), a mountain of Jerusalem.

Long ago the concept of Israel as the people of God has been forgotten as thought to be 'cast off by God'. There is a whole American religion of Replacement Theology because of the extreme duration of time that has passed in God’s apparent abandonment of Israel. How much more the thoughts of the Jews themselves!?

So God does more than share words that seem to have no meaning, He exposes his heart by answering with good and comfortable words!
The angel passes this on to Zechariah telling him to Cry (7121) his message:

Cry 7121 qara; a primary root [rather identical with 7122 through the idea of accosting a person met]; to call out to (i.e. properly address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications).

And that message to be cried is to declare God’s great jealousy for Jerusalem and for Zion, the permanence of all that Israel means; i.e. the holiness of God presented in a nation of humanity.

God’s great jealousy for Israel’s waywardness is part of the reason for the delay. *1
(read that later in order to stay on track now)

* * *

But that is not the end of God’s answer;
“And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease:
for I was but a little displeased (with Israel), and they (the heathen) helped forward the affliction.” Zechariah 1:15

Now remember this is still all a part of God’s answer to the question of How long?

And here we see that although God was displeased with Israel for her crimes against him, and he provided the required punishment for those crimes, it was not his action that brought on the greater suffering of the Jews.
The heathen, *2 in spite of their own comfort and luxury of life, took God’s affliction of the Jews as a starting point, and added much affliction of their own without cause.

This bit of information is profound in our understanding how the world actually works!
Is God in control or are the authorities of man in control?
The answer is; Yes.
And we will see a bit more how that works as this chapter develops.

But now lets continue with God’s answer to the question:
I am jealous…

* * *

“Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: …” Zechariah 1:16a
Therefore: Because of the previous information of God’s jealous feelings regarding Israel’s conduct, and the way the heathen have treated them, God makes a declaration of action; “I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies:”
The colon tells us what follows is a description of what he means by that.
But as we read it, pay attention to the tense of the statements;

Before the colon, God declares he IS returned with mercies.
Clearly the miraculous collection of Jews back to their ancient homeland from throughout the world, and the creation of the nation Israel after such a duration, are nothing short of God’s returned mercy on Israel...
but Jerusalem? Hardly!
The Jews are not even permitted in half the city, and the temple mount of the city is completely possessed by God’s enemies!
So we need God’s after colon description of what he means by such a statement; “I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies:...”;

God's explanation;
“…: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.” Zechariah 1:16b

God has declared his mercy has already returned because he has promised his house SHALL BE built in Jerusalem. (future tense)
And not only that, but a line *3 SHALL BE stretched upon the City. (again future tense)

Although this uniting of Jerusalem, and his temple construction have yet to take place, he declares his mercy HAS (present tense) returned to the city because the future plans are already in his mind to do.
In other words his forgiveness is already granted, only the required “incarceration” is in process, though compounded by the Gentile horns.

Now like I have just done, any systematic thinker would put the unification of the city before the temple construction. But God did not do this.
This seems to be a clue that the 3rd temple (his house) will be built while the city is yet divided, similar to the previous event of Ezra’s record. Again God uses type and shadow.

* * *

Then God goes one further, and tells the angel to instruct Zechariah to cry still more;

“Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts;
My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.” Zechariah 1:17 (lots of future promises)

God knows the timing of all things. It is mankind who tends to miss-interpret what God wrote in the attempt to make it fit for us in our time while we are ignorant of other important factors.
And so the Jews have long been disillusioned when God does not fulfill their interpretation of the timing, and then re-interprets the other parts to explain why God failed their original interpretation.
Christians tend to do the same thing, much as many have long awaited the revival of the Roman Empire through incomplete interpretation.

God knows the discouragement of the Jews, and so goes a long way to make the point that he really means what he wrote even though it does not look like it at this time. The declaration is sure.
God has declared by promise that he will indeed do all that he has said; “I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies.”
But there are other factors that require an extended delay.

So to avoid them from misinterpreting through discouragement and perhaps wavering faith, God specifically declares the spreading of his cities he means, will be due to and because of prosperity not scattering. Clearly this spreading is not to be confused with the coming scattering also prophesied.
Then he uses more good and comfortable words exposing his heart.
(I will not take the time here, but Zechariah chapter 2 goes into detail describing what he means by this!)

So we have to ask;

* * *

If God has such feelings for Jerusalem, why delay his promise?
This is the same thought behind the angel asking; “How long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?” Zechariah 1:12
The world is declared to be at rest, the punishment is paid, yet your mercy is still delayed. WHY?

Before God gave the answer, he showed his favorable heart toward them.
This is because the answer is not as desirable as they would like, and a rare part of the scriptural story that is abnormally NOT focused primarily on Israel, but on the Gentile nations.
In order to understand the answer correctly, we needed to first be sure of God’s affection for Israel, Judah, and specifically Jerusalem in the narrative.
The delay is not because God is angry at Israel and punishing them in excess for his own pleasure, (though some affliction was required). There is another reason.

Picture a father whose son committed a crime and was sentenced to prison.
While the father has forgiven the son, and uses the time to prepare great things upon his son's release, the father works with the troubled neighborhood kids which his son got mixed up with. This we can call the Times of the Gentiles.

* * *

Four Horns:
Now God describes this “other reason” for the delay:

“Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns.
And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these?
And he answered me,
These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.” Zechariah 1:18

Because there are 4 and at least in part seem to match, we tend to assume they are the four Great Beasts of Daniel 7.
But not all of then are included, specifically because of the identifier that makes them eligible for this list;
These four horns are in THIS list because they have scattered the three parts of the people of God.
So lets look to see how many of the Great Beasts of Daniel 7 actually did this:

We saw that the four Great Beasts represent: Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome/Caliphate 1 and 2. These were listed in Daniel 7 because of their unique diversity.

But regarding the scattering of the Jews, Persia actually returned the Jews to their homeland and to their religion. (Ezra 1:1)
Though greatly influencing the Jewish nation, Greece did not scatter the Jews either, but rather enhanced the Jewish nation by providing the scripture in the Greek language which is what the Jews spoke at the time.

Babylon indeed scattered the Jews when they destroyed the city and the temple in 597 BC, as did Rome in 70 AD.

So if Babylon and Rome are two of the four horns which scattered the Jews, But Persia and Greece are not, who are the other two?
Note: that the passage identifies three unique parts to the Nation; both kingdoms; northern (Israel) and southern (Judah), and the Holy City (Jerusalem). Zechariah 1:19

Both Babylon and Rome scattered Judah and Jerusalem but not Israel because Assyria previously conquered and almost permanently scattered the northern kingdom of Israel in 722 BC *4.
The only other GDE (Global Dominate Empire) of Gentiles that scripture identifies is Egypt. (Daniel 2:36-43, Revelation 17:10-11) But Egypt did not scatter the Jews, the Jews came to them in time of famine and Egypt took them in, and eventually enslaved them, but never scattered them. (this was also prophesied; “And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them, and they shall afflict them four hundred years.” Genesis 15:13 (the next verse appears highly prophetic for the future wealth of Israel, but we have to shut this off someplace and so I leave it for another time!)

So after reviewing all the Gentile GDEs that scripture identifies, we have found 3 of the 4 scatterers in this list, which are;
Assyria, Babylon, and Rome.

Because the Jews did not return for 1,941 years after Rome scattered them, we cannot have another scattering until after they returned, which they finally did in 1948 AD. Therefore situations like the holocaust must be seen as a part of the Roman scattering of the 3rd horn.

So there just isn’t a 4th that can accurately be said to have scattered the Jews.
This is yet another clue to the duration of; “How long?”

We see here in the context of timing, that the 4th horn (whomever it turns out to be) must scatter at least one of the three parts of the Jewish nation before God’s mercy can fall on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah. (Matthew 24:15-21)
If this has not happened yet, then logic says it must still occur in the future.
Daniel 7:21, 8:24, 9:26b-27 (did we see any flood? Is the consummation ended?), Ezekiel 24:13 (is their filthiness purged?) Zechariah 14:2, and many others, confirm this to be so. If the 4th scattering must yet occur in the future, the tangible application of God’s mercy cannot be fully activated until after that event.

So we can now identify the 4 horns as the authorities of; Assyria (Sargon II), Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar), Rome (Cesar), and a yet future scattering horn.

But great news! With the interpretation of the horses in Zechariah 1:8 now seen to apply in the global timeline, we are no longer speculating as to the identity of the source of the 4th scattering horn.
Because of what we have seen in the past several studies (and the remainder of the Revelation 17 study yet to come), we can be sure that our interpretation is no longer in the realm of speculation. Scripture has defined the parameters so narrow that with history finally coming to an end, we now have enough information to make an accurate interpretation.
The 4th Gentile horn to scatter Judah will be from the 2nd Islamic Caliphate shown as the speckled horse of Zechariah 1:8 also identified as the 8th beast king of revelation 17:11
The four scattering Gentile horns of Zechariah 1:19 are;

Assyria, Babylon, Rome, and the 2nd Caliphate.

* * *

Continuing:
“And the LORD shewed me four carpenters.” Zechariah 1:20
Now this verse just seems to come in from nowhere! But in the excitement don’t skip over the fact that this is the first time the LORD has dealt personally with Zechariah in this narrative. Up till now the guiding angel has been the translator as it were, but here the LORD himself shows him four carpenters. This will soon show significant.

Now any prophecy buff stops short and pays attention to the carpenters because this is completely new in prophecy. No other scriptural prophecy mentions carpenters, and this is very unusual.
Scripture nearly always supports scripture by overlapping concepts among its books and writers. But here this concept appears to stand alone.
What then are the four special carpenters that the LORD personally shows Zechariah?

An investigation into the unique word does not reveal anything surprising;
carpenters 2796 charash; from 2790; a fabricator of any material.
2790 charash; a primary root; to scratch, i.e. (by implication) to engrave, plough; hence (from the use of tools) to fabricate (of any material); …

What this word does tell us in its lack of surprise, is these carpenters use skills to make things from stuff. They are builders not destroyers.
I don’t see any direct connection, but Jesus was raised a carpenter. Same word.

Are the carpenters from God? We are not told.
What materials do they use? We are not told.
Are they men, angels, nations or other representations? We are not told.
But Zechariah did not ask; What are these? As he has before, (Zechariah 1:9,19)
and the LORD, nor the angel shows him what they are as done before, (Zechariah 1:9,10,19)
Therefore we can conclude they are what they seem to be and don’t need further explanation; They are carpenters.

“Then said I, What come these (horns and carpenters) to do?
And he (the LORD) spake, saying,
These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head:…” Zechariah 1:21a

Now what we should find curious is; Why would the LORD himself choose here to enter the conversation personally just to repeat what the angel already said in the preceding verse? And why would Zechariah ask what they do if the angel just told him?
Hang on to that thought.

The phrase; “So that no man did lift up his head” is indication that the hopeless situation did not allow the possibility of a successful defense, and so as history now shows in part, hiding was the best defense, and quiet endurance was the only course.
If you ever wondered why the Jews did not retaliate in the Holocaust, this verse tells us the horn did such a job of it that no one dared.
If ever we wanted to find Hitler in the Scriptures I think it would be safe to include him here in the 3rd horn of the Gentiles that scattered Judah, perhaps not as the identified scatterer, but fulfilling; “so that no man did lift up his head” playing the role of a spiritual henchman of the Roman horn that scattered. This too may be a prototype example of that 4th scattering yet to come.
Why do we not see the horrors of the holocaust noted specifically in scripture?
I suggest it is to emphasize the greater horrors of the still future holocaust that IS mentioned; (Isaiah 10:5-6, Zechariah 13:8-9, Jeremiah 4:9-13)

Now lest we take up a bitterness toward God on behalf of the Jews who seem to be endlessly abused, I remind you that eternity in Hell is a very long time.
These acts and durations of suffering here are in proportion, trivial tools used to bring repentance to anyone who will respond… before eternity comes.

Judah:
When the LORD personally entered the conversation in verse 20, the entire concern is now focused specifically on Judah; no independent northern kingdom of Israel, and not the city of Jerusalem as mentioned previously in verse 19.

We might see the focus only on Judah perhaps because both halves of the scattered nation are now united into one and Jerusalem is the capital, therefore the identification of Judah now covers all three previous independent and uniquely scattered parts, just as now calling the new nation “Israel” identifies them all. *5

But I am persuaded that the 4th horn only scatters Judah;
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,… Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:” Matthew 24:15-16
It seems that Jesus meant specifically Judah, just as he said through Zechariah! (the different spelling is only a translational issue between OT Hebrew and NT Aramaic written in Greek. The Language of the New Testament a very informative read. (http://www.answering-islam.org/Bible/nt-languages.html)

Perhaps this exclusivity is because at the time of the next scattering, the City is still in the hands of the enemy, and the region formerly called Israel is also occupied by non-Jews, leaving only the area and people of Judaea to be scattered.
But there is a prophecy that seem yet to be fulfilled;
“Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
But the LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the North, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.” Jeremiah 16:14-15

This 1948 'bringing' has indeed brought them from all the lands whither they have been driven, but I never hear of anyone praising God for bringing them from the land of the north. Further, I really don’t hear it said that the LORD lives because he brought them home at all. This recent event seems be attributed to circumstances.

I believe this is because this return is not the return which God refers to.
There will be another, and God himself will play such a miraculous part that all nations everywhere will say; The LORD lives, that brought his people back to their land by his power alone!

It is my belief that the LORD himself now gets involved directly in the narrative of Zechariah to show his personal involvement with the carpenters during the time of the last scattering.
This is prophetically and practically very important as it identifies that the Church age of Faith is raptured and God has again returned to personally act on behalf of the Jews through actual observable miracles as in the days of old.

Carpenters:
“…but these (carpenters) are come to fray them (the horns), to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.” Zechariah 1:21b

This apparent repeat of verse 19 may be here because that verse was spoken by the angel and this verse is spoken by the LORD, but I don’t think such purposeless repetition is in keeping with the scriptural nature, nor do I think Zachariah forgot what the angel said just one verse previous.
As the scriptures have shown a propensity to do, I am now alert to the 4th item in any list perhaps having further divisions.
Because verse 19 speaks of 4 horns, lets examine this verse 21 as if these 4 horns are further divisions of the 4th horn in verse 19.

* * *

Divisions of the 4th horn:
In this theory we notice that the 4 horns of verse 19 scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem,
But the 4 horns of verse 21 only scatter Judah.
Now we also notice that these last 4 horns lifted up their (collective?) horn (singular).
This lends to support our theory that these verse 21 horns are collectively under the singular 4th scattering horn of verse 19.
And although the verse 19 horns specifically scattered the three parts of the Jews, the verse 21 horns specifically did such a job of it that “no man did lift up his head:”
The colon suggests the second part is directly tied or relational to the first part.
Since it is not necessary for a colon to describe the carpenters come to fray the four horns that so oppressed these head hangers, I believe the colon is an application of immediate help arriving so quickly that a metaphorical breath cannot be taken between the parts; “…so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them…” the one part is inseparable from the other.
Of course I openly recognize this is speculation.

Since Israel has now returned to their homeland as a nation, we now must watch for this 4th and final scattering, perhaps coming from four sources all for a singular purpose.

“O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.” Isaiah 10:5 (emphasis added)

* * *

Greece:
Because we saw Greece as the white horse in Zechariah 1:8 we need to find other scriptural support to verify that Greece is indeed a player in the last days events.

Daniel 8:19-23 has a mysterious 'encapsulating' verse that has never fit well into any interpretation of events that I have read;

“And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.” Daniel 8:19

In the question of “How long” of Zechariah 1:12 the indignation was for three score and ten years, and the angel was complaining about the events at the end of God’s indignation. This verse in Daniel seems to fit here like a glove, so lets continue to see if the rest fits as well.
Clearly these next events have already played out in history very accurately, but we cannot just ignore that first verse indicating what is yet to come in the end of the indignation.
Since these events historically have already occurred but the indignation is not yet over, we must accept the plausibility that by the identification in Zechariah 1:8 the portion of Greece will play out again in an even fuller way than history records;

“The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.” Daniel 8:20-21

Here scripture has interpreted itself for us so there is no mistake. And we have already applied this passage of prophecy to identify these elements of the past GDEs to affect Israel. And now we get to the intended focus;

“Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.” Daniel 8:22

History has shown that the first half of this prophecy perfectly fulfilled the events following the death of Alexander the Great; Alexander died and his great Grecian Empire was divided into 4 kingdoms. *6

Then Rome conquered them all, and the Greek empire ended significantly before “the last end of the indignation” which obviously continues still today.
So clearly those kingdoms of the four horns that stood up for the power of Alexander, cannot fulfill the prophecy that follows in the passage when related to the encapsulating timeline of verse 19;

“And in the latter time of their kingdom…” Daniel 8:23
(this gets a bit messy)
Yes this prophecy was completely fulfilled in the latter time of their kingdom.
But THEIR kingdom, those of the 4 Generals of Alexander the Great, was not in the last end of the indignation which is still not arrived. Therefore those 4 kingdoms were not what the angel was ultimately showing Daniel.

“: for at the time appointed the end shall be.” Daniel 8:19
What took place at the end of those previous four kingdoms was not the end, because the appointed end has not yet come even 2,186 years later. (2011AD + 175 BC = 2186 years since the end of those four kingdoms and the beginning of Antiochus IV until now.)

Daniel’s chapter 8 prophecy declares that in the last end of the indignation; considering the fact, or similar to the fact, that four stood up for Alexander’s power, four other kingdoms would also later rise from the nation of Greece, (not from the Empire of Greece.)
Now read the verse again with this distinction:
“Now that (great horn) being broken, Whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.” Daniel 8:22

(the Septuagint words it; “…but not in their power.”) either way, the point is that although they stand up out of Greece, an authority outside Greece gives them the permission to rise.

So far there seems to be no sign of this occurrence… So far.

“And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full…” Daniel 8:23a

As these four kingdoms in the latter end, come to an end,
At the same time the transgressors have run their course and are also coming to their end, THEN….

“…a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.” Daniel 8:23b

Again, history shows this prophesied event already took place through Antiochus IV (Epiphanies) the 8th king of the Syrian dynasty, 175 BC- 164 BC, who’s reign followed his brother Seleucus, (I Maccabees 1:10, 6:16 used historically only)
But we still cannot ignore that previous verse encapsulating the narrative. (Daniel 8:19)
Therefore we are forced to contemplate that perhaps Antiochus IV was but a type and shadow of one yet to come at the time of the end of the four kingdoms yet to stand up out of the nation of Greece, much as was done the first time.
“Whereas” is the key word in the verse to support such a theory.
Try to read the verse without 'whereas' and the entire verse falls apart.

I propose the verse reads with this intent;
"Whereas four stood up for it, (as they did),
four kingdoms shall (also) stand up out of the nation, but not in his power." Daniel 8:22 (proposed explanation inserted.)

This theory tends to again be supported by 2 lines of the 4th verse of Daniel 11;
Alexander’s kingdom shall be divided “and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled:… even for others besides those.” (meaning others besides the four that rose after him.)
and 11:14b “Also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.” Meaning their self exaltation of robbing is unknowingly done to validate the vision, ensuring it remains until it is later fulfilled, but they themselves fail to fulfill it in their time.

“And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.” Daniel 8:26

What possibly could the angel have meant regarding this vision by saying “the vision of the evening and the morning”?
Clearly the vision of Chapter 8 (which we reviewed only part) is a two-fold vision of two different times, one in the later part of the indignation (evening) and one even beyond that in the end of the end of the indignation (morning).
Morning refers to an end of the night, and this is in keeping with the angel's complaint that the 'night' of the 70 years had passed but the indignation seemed to continue. Zechariah 1:12

We have seen this prophecy is sprinkled with these indications of its dual fold purpose, and this seems to confirm the Greece interpretation.

At the time of the end of the four later kingdoms from Greece but not Greek (Daniel 11:4b-c), the last GDE at the end of the end of the indignation, produces the rise of the Antichrist as we shall later confirm in Revelation 17.
Again the wording of the verse does not declare the Antichrist rises from these four kingdoms, it only identifies his rise at the time of their end. (Daniel 8:23)
I intend to later develop this Greece theory with other scripture, but for now lets continue with the question of “How long?”

* * *

The First Go-Round:
As we continue we are told this fierce king has great success… “and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.” Daniel 8:24b, (Jeremiah 4:9-31)

Antiochus IV did great damage to the Temple and the Jews, but I find no history declaring that he actually destroyed the holy people, not to mention that the Jews were not mighty at that time.
The Jews had been repeatedly bludgeoned by the two kingdoms of; Ptolemy’s Egypt, and Seleucus’s kingdom of the Middle Eastern region colliding with Israel as the battleground between them.
This 400 year era, mistakenly known as “The Silent Years” between the Old and New Testaments, is actually pre-recorded prophetically in great detail by Daniel 11.
Chuck Missler does a superb job of detailing this history in his Daniel exposition available on DVD at khouse.org
(you really need to be listening to his daily podcast!) Missler’s Podcasts

So although Antiochus IV failed to fulfill the prophecy as stated (though he gave it a good try in his prototype of the Abomination of Desolation Daniel 11:31), there is no doubt the holy people described here are indeed the Jews, and so we again see that God’s lack of mercy extends clear to the end of the end of the indignation long past that of Antiochus, because the destruction of the Jews has yet to occur in this way, and that, only after they become mighty!
This fierce king will scatter Judah so that no man will lift up his head: but the carpenters are come to cast out the scattering horns of the Gentiles.

Now lets not forget that this passage of Daniel 8:19-26 is couched in the context of “what shall be in the last end of the indignation.”

So we see that;
• There must yet rise four kingdoms from the nation of Greece,
• The Jews must obtain a king,
• The Jews must become a mighty people,
• And they then must again be scattered and destroyed. (Jeremiah 4:9-13)
This is a growing list of significant events yet to be fulfilled before the indignation can be said to be over and God’s mercy fall on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah!

And so at the end of this passage, which is identified as 'the last end' of the indignation, we find the events that seem to delay God’s “mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah,…” (Zechariah 1:12) which cause the angel to ask; “How long?”

* * *

The reason for the Delay:
Here in the last part of the last verse of Zechariah 1:21, we are given the big picture reason for the extremely long delay in God’s mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah.

The delay is primarily for the Gentiles that lifted up their power (horn) over the land of Judah for the purpose of scattering it, helping to forward the affliction further than God’s displeasure required, which Moses himself brought upon the people by not following God’s clear instructions, thereby creating prophecy that must be fulfilled much as Judas betrayed Jesus to death by his own will though it was all along in the pre-plan of God.

I know that is really hard to wrap your head around;
Who is in control of our lives, God or man? The answer is Yes.

This Gentile period as reason for the delay is confirmed in the Daniel 8 passage; “And in the latter time… when the transgressors are come to the full…” Daniel 8:23a
This reveals that there is a designated period allowed for the transgressors.
Scripture calls this the Times of the Gentiles; “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Luke 21:24

Now it is often rightfully concluded that this period refers at least in part to the Diaspora, but wrongly concluded that it is therefore ended now that the Jews have returned to Israel. The context shows this period does not end until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, and that fulfillment is directly related to a pre-determined time it will take for the haters of God to fill up their transgressions. (Daniel 11:35c, 8:19b)
and we now know THAT is not until after the four kingdoms rise from Greece, the holy people get a king, and become mighty, the fierce king rises at the end of the four kingdoms, the holy people are destroyed, and the last GDE of Gentiles is frayed by the carpenters and cast out.
That GDE we now know to be the last of three parts of the 4th Great Beast of Daniel 7:19-25, and is also described as the last of the four horns which scatter Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem. (Zechariah 1:19)

* * *

Carpenters:
At this point I am very curious about the four carpenters that come to fray the Gentile horns, but have yet to find anything I can connect directly.

Fray 2729 charad; a primary root; to shudder with terror; hence to fear; also to hasted (with anxiety).
(See also Deuteronomy 28:26, Jeremiah 7:33)

Beyond this I have found nothing yet in scripture to expound on these four carpenters.

* * *

Conclusion:
So how long will the LORD not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which he has had indignation these threescore and ten years?

Until the Gentiles who now possess control of the earth fill up the transgressions allowed by the prophecy of scripture which allowable transgressions were increased by the failure of Moses to follow the direction of God.

There is one more clue to the duration found in the cryptic “threescore and ten”.
60+10= 70

This is commonly called the 70 weeks of Daniel;

“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.” Daniel 9:24

You will notice that the first purpose of the duration is to finish the transgression, as we just saw in Daniel 8:23a
Everything else in the list comes to completion behind that.
Both the Jews and the Gentiles walk their own timelines. It just so happens that the two are concluded at the same time; at the end of the 70 weeks. *7

It is all a part of God’s very carefully designed plan with a purpose, not haphazardly written as we go, but fully calculated and written down in his Book ahead of time.
God is the author of a very great and complex story in which we find ourselves characters.

So is God in control or are the authorities of man in control?
We begin to see the answer is; Yes, depending on your perspective.

* * * * * * *

*1 Exodus 20:5a “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous 7067 God,…”

jealous 7067 qanna; from 7065; jealous.
jealousy 7068 qinah; from 7065; jealousy or envy.
7065 qana; a primary root; to be (causative; make) zealous, i.e. (in a bad sense) jealous or envious.

We see that Strong’s cannot not actually define jealousy. The word is used more in a causation state. We are to use the context of scripture to understand jealously by God’s reaction. And by continuing the verse we see a very great consequence for invoking God’s jealousy;
“…, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” Exodus 20:5b

So lets go to the modern dictionary for more info;

Jealous: see ZEALOUS 1. Exacting exclusive devotion; intolerant of rivalry. 2. a. Disposition to suspect rivalry in matters of interest and affection. b. Prompted by such apprehension; as, jealous fears. 3. Suspiciously watchful. 4. Archaic & Dialectal - Zealous; devoted. 5. Now Dialectal - Distrustful; suspicious. 6. Vigilant or exact in observation. Synonymous See ENVIOUS.
- Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary 5th edition 1948

Obviously we don’t rely heavily on such a modern interpretation of a word used in 422BC but we can get the very general idea of what God meant by jealous.
Value 4. And 5. Show a difference in root meaning from the Archaic use to Now, which helps us see that our greater negative focus we place on the use today is different than originally intended. Clearly God’s intended use lends heavily on Zealous though he did actually use the word Jealous here with intention.
Therefore we cannot escape that even in removing the greater negative mindframe we have regarding this word, that God indeed IS jealous, he does not GET jealous!

This is troublesome to get ones mind around when comprehending GOD, and cannot actually be done until we alter our present negative attitude toward the word!

When a young woman is smothered by her boyfriend’s jealousy, we understand that he has a problem that affects her uncomfortably and even inappropriately because she has not committed to the relationship the level of exclusivity that he already has.
Until she does, she should not be obligated to levels beyond her commitment. If he does not like that, he can move on or adjust his own levels to match.
Such an exclusive commitment comes in the resulting marriage and is the tool to quiet a jealous heart because such a commitment now exists between the two. This is the whole mindframe regarding the solemn vows; To have and to hold, in whatever comes, foresaking all others, till death do us part. (or words to that effect)

Because we live in a day when a large percentage of our population now believes that living in a state of fornication is honorable, we then view jealousy as always a problem emotion that must be dealt with when it appears.
But God’s values have not changed, ours have.
According to God, jealousy is an honorable and valid emotion. Lets explore why:

If your spouse, which has vowed to you alone for life according to the intention of God, is true and faithful so that you see their love for you in their eyes (so to speak), then jealousy has no reason to become green, though still present in the relationship in a wholesome roll.
It is this healthy jealousy that keeps the devotion singular on both sides, aggressively defending the marriage from destructive intrusion; Me for you and you for me, exclusive to each other, forsaking all others, as the vow intends.
Jealousy says; This exclusivity is critical to the success of the relationship.

Jealousy turns green and even ugly when there is cause, or the perception of cause, to fear this exclusivity is in jeopardy.

So if this wholesome jealousy turns green and ugly, what is the cause?
If the cause is that another has turned your spouse’s heart away from you alone, then the jealousy is justified. And if you conduct yourself in a way that causes your spouse to perceive your heart has turned, then the jealousy is again justified.
Justified jealousy is a proper emotion demanding resolution to a problem. *1B

In such a case, jealousy is seen to be a problem only to the wayward heart.
In today’s social mindframe of selfishness, a jealous spouse is perceived as smothering and must be corrected because; “I want to be free to act as I like, forsaking the emotions of my spouse.”
The problem heart then is not the jealous one, but the wayward one.

Now of course this discussion becomes endless when we add the contention of the jealous spouse that first drove the other's heart to another, but since this is God were talking about being jealous, we can ignore this side issue here since God does not possess such character flaws. God has not caused the problem:
“Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement, whom I have put away? Or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you?
Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.” Isaiah 50:1

The scriptures are bursting with God’s 'husband' perspective of his people as his wife.
If we his people (Jew or believing Gentile) read his words with a selfish heart, then we will see him as restrictive and demanding; a tyrant husband from which we need to escape.
But if we humble ourselves and confess our selfish heart, when we read his words we will be able to see his heart full of love breaking for our waywardness.
I am amazed to read the entire book of Jeremiah which was once to me harsh and demanding, but now page after page is God’s loving heart pleading with his adulterous wife to come home. The entire book of Psalms is God urging our comprehension that our heart is wayward and needs to run to him for our own good!

Almost like covering ones eyes and picking out of a hat full of similar choices, the following passage was selected.
At the first read it invokes self protection, a defensive reaction accusing God of being angry and violent… green with jealousy.
But seriously contemplate God’s righteous heart in reading the passage with the question; Not “How does this apply to me?”, but asking; “What is God’s heart motivating this?”
(Psalm 50:16-23)

The heart of fear knows I deserve God’s wrath, and so wants to avoid even the thought of it, let alone reading it.
But the heart of repentance runs to God begging for him to accept our sorrow for hurting him by our wickedness.
If we really know our God, we know his incredible heart of love toward us. But we also know our heart is wicked and needs to be corrected.
After seriously contemplating the above recommendation, the very next chapter read in such humility, will be very comforting! Psalm 51
Now pick up your revived love for God and go read Jeremiah not with the heart of fear, but to hear his heart of love!

Is God jealous? You bet! And that is a healthy thing, without it he would have forsaken us long ago! We need to become as jealous for him, earnestly desiring the greatest intimacy possible to the exclusion of all other offensive interests. (I Corinthians 9:24)

*1B Even in the jealousy of the young boyfriend, there is a valid perception of a problem that must be addressed.
The proper solution is the only difference, because of the lower level of commitment entered by one or both parties. The jealous boy should use the wisdom of the jealousy to instruct him that the girl is not committed, and so move on before greater damage is done, he has no rights beyond that. (and vice verse)

*2 Heathen 1471 gowy; apparently from the same root as 1465; (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile;

*3 line 6957 qav; from 6960 [compare with 6961]; a cord (as connecting), especially for measuring; figuratively a rule(er); also a rim, a musical string or accord. Compare 6978

6960 qavah; a primary root; to bind together (perhaps by twisting), i.e. collect; (figuratively) to expect.
6961 qaveh; from 6960; a (measuring) cord (as for binding).
6978 qavqav; from 6957 (in the sense of a fastening); stalwart.

Different from the measuring line 2256 of Zech 2:1-2.

Clearly this definition is very specific among all the tiny variations used in defining similar words.

So we see that this word “line” here, is specifically meaning the tool that binds together through encompassing (measuring) a specific parameter, as opposed to a measuring line binding together for the sake of measuring.

The point is that God declares he will at some time carefully “survey” Jerusalem for the sake of uniting the entire city, not leaving any small parts out by oversight.
Though it is divided now, this prophecy grantees a very calculated and complete unification.

*4 the two kingdoms (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Kingdoms1.html)
Although I find some interpretative flaw in this writing, the information is useful and the easiest to provide here.

*5 Israel and Judah reunited:
We seem to love to take one verse extracted from the message, and set it on a pedestal of sure proof for our interpretation.
Example:

“…Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel;… and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore at all:…” Ezekiel 37:21-22

After the miraculous return of the Jews in 1948 to create a new nation in their old land, this passage has been used in confidence that they will never again be uprooted and scattered.
With this interpretation we are free to pack all the remaining end times events into a very short period of time, neatly arranged into a simple schedule which is expected to suddenly happen at any moment.
But God has consistently shown in fulfilled scripture that such simplicity is rarely his way.
So in an attempt to make sure we have the intended message from God, lets expand our extraction to include a usually ignored troublesome entry in the middle of the verse:

“…Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel;
and one king shall be king to them all:
and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore at all:…” Ezekiel 37:21-22

Now we see that although most of this prophecy was indeed fulfilled in 1948, we have a significant element missing in the recipe that would result in the promise at the end.
Israel does not yet have a king.

Now you might suppose this is nitpicking, they do have a single elected leader for the now reasonably unified nation, so perhaps this is just word play of insignificance.

Perhaps.

But how long have we been learning that God does not choose his words casually? If he said king, he meant king.
But lets go ahead and ignore that for now and move on to include the verses that follow in context:

“Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them:
So shall they be my people, and I will be their God.” Ezekiel 37:23

So Israel is now a unified nation. True.
But they don’t have a king.
And neither have they stopped defiling themselves.
God has not cleansed them.
and they are still not functioning as God’s people.
and God has not yet shown himself to be their God in the full sense of prophecy.

THREREFORE to suppose this prophecy now promises that the new nation of Israel will never again be divided into two kingdoms is stretching this prophecy, possibly beyond its intended time of application.
So surely we should not further extend this prophecy, still unfulfilled, to assume that means Israel will never again be scattered!

With this understanding we are free to comprehend other passages of prophecy showing yet a fourth scattering.

*6 After Alexander:
“The sudden death of Alexander left his generals without any plan whereby the vast territories he had conquered should be administered. Some of his followers, including the rank and file of the Macedonian army, wanted to preserve the empire. But the generals wanted to break up the empire and create realms for themselves. It took more than 40 years of struggles and warfare (323-280 BC) before the separate kingdoms were carved out.”…
“10. After putting some of his satraps to death, Alexander the Great put four of his most trusted generals in charge of certain areas of his empire. After he died, three of the generals wanted the empire to divide into separate kingdoms under their management. In Babylon, the oldest general, Seleucus, was governing. He was a very powerful man and was satrap of the entire eastern Persian Empire. In Egypt, Ptolemy I was the satrap and acting Regent before Alexander's death, ruling from Memphis. He now wanted total control of Egypt for himself.
In Thrace, Lysimachus was the satrap, who ruled on the edges of Macedonia, endeavoring to take over the country…. Cassander wanted to retain the kingship of Macedonia and the leadership of the Greek States. Seleucus, Lysimachus, and Ptolemy were also content to keep charge of what they already controlled… - After Alexander

It seems then that history shows four kingdoms rose from the ancient Empire of Greece through four generals that stood up for it exactly as prophesied... but that does not mean the evening and morning interpretations have both been fulfilled!

*7 I plan to address the basics of the 70 weeks of Daniel in my next post.
*