Four Great Beasts

Part 3
Post 177
Required reading - Daniel 7

I write this post with the understanding you have already read the chapter.
Take the time and read it now… Don’t study it, just read it. It needs to be fresh in your mind for this post to make any sense.
(If you don’t have a bible, please take the time to use the link I have provided under "Must Read Websites".)

* * *
Now lets begin:

“Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.” Daniel 7:2-3

Winds or beasts?

To save confusion it must be noted here that the four winds are not the four great beasts.
The winds “strove” on the sea and the beasts came up. *1
My last post was about these winds, and this post is about the beasts.
But I sometimes refer to them as one in the same for the purpose of reducing the complication in the narrative, but they are not actually the same thing.
The winds are the influencing spirits of the great beasts that rise, as we saw this clearly in the interpreted message of the chariots (spirits) of the actual winds of the earth from my previous post.
But to refer to the one implies the other as well, because there is no beast without the spirit behind it. Yet to know the distinctions allows us to better understand WHY and HOW things happen.

Good or evil spirits/winds?

Because of the word heavens (8064) describing the realm of the “four spirits” discussed in Zechariah 6:5, we tend to associate those spirits where God dwells, in Heaven, and therefore assume these spirits are good.
Yet we discovered the word heaven as used, only suggests the temporal regions, and this meaning by use is further defined to the layers of the sky where winds are found.
The Zechariah temporal description did not tell us anything regarding the nature of the four “spirits” that this spiritual vision in Daniel 7 now speaks of as four “winds”.
It is no accident that these two prophecies trade the words used, unquestionably tying them together.
But I get ahead of myself. The answer of good or bad will reveal itself later.

Why Beasts?

Why did Daniel not just call them nations, or kingdoms, or kings, or empires?
Because each of those titles defines the discussed entity in a way that restricts the actual concept that Daniel is explaining here. It is our job to understand what these beasts are beyond such restrictive terms.

Why only four?

The thing prophecy students notice right away is that there are only four beasts.
If these are the four most commonly interpreted Global Dominate Empires that affected Israel, (GDEs) why only four of the eight found in the Revelation 17 prophecy?
Why not at least the five shown in Daniel 2?
Good question.

We find the answer in the word “Diverse” used in this chapter five times.

Diverse 8133 shena; (Chaldean) corresponding to 8132:- alter, change, (be) diverse.
8132 shana; a primary root; to alter:- change.

Remember in our previous post the online definition of troposphere?
"The troposphere (from Greek: tropein - to change, circulate or mix) is the lowermost layer of the Earth's atmosphere. Most of the weather phenomena, systems, convection, turbulence and clouds occur in this layer, although some may extend into the lower portion of the stratosphere."

These “great beasts” are in this short list because they are diverse one from another; they each are a change from what was before. Those not diverse are not included in this list; not a list of kings or kingdoms, but of “beasts”, which implies a life force, an entity beyond just an empire. We might refer to this as an era.
I tend to use the word Empire with this encompassing understanding that it means the many kings and kingdoms that fall under its scope such as the many variations of the Persian Empire. But the scripture only used this word once, (and not in this chapter) because even the word empire does not include the spiritual force of the “wind” that uses the empire to strive over the masses.

Empire 4438 maluwth; from 4427;… a rule; concrete; a dominion.
4427 malak; a primary root; to reign; inception; to ascend the throne; causative; to induct into royalty; hence (by implication) to take counsel.

Lists:

We find several lists in scripture of the GDEs (Global Dominate Empires), each with a different number due to a different focus for why they made the list;
Revelation 17 tells us there are a total of 7, no 8. Well actually 9 kingdom empires.
This apparent uncertainty is actually an explanation of groupings; 7 are like this, but all 8 are like that, and in total there are 9 because…
Daniel 2 tells us there are 4, well 5, no to get specific there are 6, unless you include Christ’s kingdom then there are 7. This is done for the very same reason.
The identification of Grouping.
Here in Daniel 7 the distinction of this specific group of 4 is with specific attention to the four spirits behind the “greatness and diversity”.

* * *

Really?

But all that is only relevant if you hold to the theory that these great beasts actually represent GDEs. (Global Dominate Empires)
So before we go off trying to make these beasts represent some various wild idea, the vision interprets itself;
We are told in Daniel 7:17 “These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.”
Since these are “great” beasts we must conclude these kings are the best of the best for greatness. It is very hard to pass up the idea that a great king must also have a great kingdom.
But before we get real nitpicky trying to distinguish between great kings or their great kingdoms, the passage also includes their kingdoms as inseparable from the kings in the very next verse; “But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom,…” not the king as the previous verse declared.
And again, even more specific; “Thus the fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth,…” Daniel 7:23
Therefore the use of the term “great beast” actually intends this prophecy to mean both king and kingdom and even the whole empire era as evidenced by v.5 where it includes four kings of a single beast.

This is why we do not find this chapter to have contradictions even though it declares things differently such as the beasts rising from the sea in verse 2 but rising from the earth in verse 17. We understand there is meaning to be grasped in the different words used by their intended context describing a distinct difference though subtle *2.

So are we clear?
These four great beasts in Daniel 7 are four great king/kingdom empires and the four different (diverse) spirits that distinguish them from each other. (Ephesians 6:12)
The question is only; Which ones?

I submit they are the spirits and empires of; Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.


But the pieces don’t fit those empires…do they?

Although close *3, what we are told in scripture of these proposed four king/kingdoms doesn’t seem to quite fit in representing those four great beasts:

1. Yes, the 1st Lion beast fits Nebuchadnezzar remarkably well, even showing his change of heart experience from a Lion to a man. (Daniel 1-4) This representation focuses on the great king rather than his kingdom (which is allowed in v.17), that did not change with the man as evidenced by the sins of his grandson Belshazzar, also a king of Babylon, (Daniel 5) because the striving spirit over the kingdom was not changed.

2. The 2nd Bear beast is rather questionable as fitting Persia. (Although it turns out more through our ignorance than actual flaw.) Yes we know the Medo-Persian empire was inseparably composed of both those nations, and in fact Persia did eclipse Media quite accurately “raising up on one side”, but what are the three ribs between its teeth?
[09/15/12 - Admittedly questionable as weak: Frankly I have doubts regarding this conjecture. I have not yet come up with anything more worthy to represent these three ribs:] We can validate Persia as the bear beast by reviewing Daniel 11:2 “And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.” *4 I propose that the teeth of this bear are the two nations Media and Persia between which these three kings find themselves ruling as they encouraged both to chew up many nations just as upper and lower teeth do; “They (the three kings) said thus unto it, (the beast of Medo-Persia) Arise, devour much flesh”. *5

3. The 3rd Leopard beast again fits Greece extremely well with great detail including the rise and fall of Alexander the Great, and his four generals that divided his kingdom after. (Daniel 8:5-8,21-22)

So it looks like 3 out of 3 are actually very good matches. (watch that 4th one in the list!)

4. But it is the 4th great beast that “confirms beyond doubt” this is not a correct interpretation: Rome, clearly did not fulfill well any of the descriptions beyond a superficial “meanness of Iron”. Rome certainly did not possess the 10 horns now famous among Christian prophecy buffs. Its actual significant diversity is debated depending on the perspective used, and so I will not address that issue here… because it is irrelevant!
If Rome is meant to be the fourth great diverse beast of this prophecy, the results are weak at best, and failed to fulfill with assurance at least some of the prophecy.

True.

And the typical explanation given is the expectation of its soon reemergence, dubbed “The Revived Roman Empire”, to fulfill what it has not yet done.
Yet in this light, the numbering sequence cannot be reconciled with the prophecy of Rev 17:10-11, nor can it’s possible return (more on this in later posts; Post 264 "Of Iron").

But in answer to this singular problem in identifying the 4th great beast of this interpretation, lets remember to apply what we learned in the cipher of the previous post…

* * *
The prophecy of the four winds of Zechariah 6:

We saw in that narration the representation of the 4 winds of the northern hemisphere. Though it allowed for the scientific truth of the other hemisphere as well, the narration was intentionally prophetic and so used only one.
It must be remembered that correct interpretation cannot add or subtract from the actual prophecy as it is given. We do not “make things fit”, *6 but rather perfect the accuracy of our interpretation by changing our interpretation until it fits the prophecy flawlessly.
The prophecy is always flawless; if there are conflicts they lie in the interpretation.

Yes, in the previous post we filled in the blanks when trying to understand the natural science of the temporal layer of the message. In science, information left out does not make it wrong, just missing (like the location of the winds of the red horses). The blanks are intentionally there in order to make the second layer of prophecy also accurate, and you can't add stuff to a prophecy, though you can use more than one properly interpreted prophecy in combination to understand others.
Therefore we will only apply here what that narration provided prophetically as a template for the prophecy, by using the temporal message cipher that we solved.
Solving the scientific cipher gives us a key to solving the prophetic cipher, much as archeologists do on the ancient hieroglyphs in Egypt.

Those 4 elements of the chariots and horses with their intricacies are our tools.
The temporal message described the wind cells of the hemispheres and their characteristics we now know as the Jetstream, the Polar, the Ferrel, and the Hadley cells, with their respective winds colored for identification… so that we could identify the spirits (chariots) of the four beasts (Empires) and the strange complexities of the 4th.
And it is that 4th that now seems to give our interpretation question.

I have copied them here for our application of them to this prophecy:

Zechariah 6:2,6-7
Note: the red horses (chariot #1) (v.2) are missing entirely.
“The black horses which are therein (chariot #2) go forth into the north country; (Polar)
and the white (chariot #3) go forth after them; (Ferrel)
and the grisled (½ chariot #4) go forth toward the south country. (Hadley)
And the bay (½ chariot #4) went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: …” (random)


Remember:

Chariots = Controlling spirits
Horses = Empires under those spirits,
Spirits + Empires = Beasts


Chariot of Red Horses = the Lion of Babylon:

We saw in that narration the first chariot had Red horses, but then we never heard of it again leaving the narration with three of the four winds. As we investigated we learned that the represented Jetstream is located high above and therefore has a significant influence on those cells that come beneath it;

"Little moisture enters the stratosphere, so clouds are rare. Even though the stratosphere has complex wind systems, violent storms don't occur there. Because the air temperature in the stratosphere slowly increases with altitude, it does not cause convection and has a stabilizing effect on atmospheric conditions in the region. Stability generally limits vertical extensions of cloud and leads to the lateral spreading of high cumulonimbus cloud with characteristic anvil heads. This means that weather (in the form of clouds) is almost entirely confined to the troposphere below. That's why airline pilots prefer to fly in the stratosphere." - Stratosphere
The Jetstreams are said to be just below the Stratosphere. In effect, the highest “weather” under which no other weather can achieve such place.

“Thou, O king, (Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon) art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.” Daniel 2:37-38

This tells us that regardless of desire or potential, no other kingdom that follows Babylon will have as high a standing or as much single control as Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon did.
This is important to know as we watch the rise of Islam in the world today.

But what we are not told prophetically is the destination of the red horses.
Why?
This “prophetic secret” explained in our now understandable science of global winds, implies that we cannot restrict the boundaries of Babylon as we can the other nations in history.
Therefore I propose that the spirit of Babylon will influence the Grisled and Bay horse kingdoms undetected as the Jetstream over the Hadley cell egging on the violence of the storm winds without breaching either the temporal or prophetic narrations in scripture. (a bit of a wild idea I know, but take it or leave it. I will provide significant evidence in posts to come.)


Black horses of Persia, White horses of Greece, Grisled horses of Rome:

In attempting to learn something of these great beasts by the narrative of the horses, we discover the message actually gave us very little information. *7
I believe this is because their individuality, (diversity) is the primary point of the message.
We were shown the secret that our global winds are not one giant mess of bluster, but 4 distinct realms.
I believe this is also the prophetic point of the message in both Zechariah 6 and Daniel 7.
There are 4 distinct spirits that influence their realms on the earth. And that is what we are to understand.
But why go to all the extremes to make this point: four world dominate empires in time should be real easy to say without all the drama.

The answer is why Rome does not quite fit as the 4th beast!


Bay horses...of what?

The 4th beast we are forced by scripture to call Rome,*8 though it doesn’t quite fit, has a detail that seems to become central in the narration of the 4th chariot of Zechariah 6.
All the horses of that chariot, which I suggest is the 4th great beast of Daniel 7, has two kinds of horses representing two kings of empires, with two different roles though clearly of the same iron source; chariot i.e. spirit.

So the all important question becomes: Is the 4th chariot; Grisled, or Bay?
This is the impossible question to answer!
The correct answer is “Yes”.

The Grisled horses take their normal role in the world of winds, and go south to become the Hadley cell, by nature more violently powerful than the others, making it diverse, but not to the point of unweathercell-like uniqueness. This is the Roman Empire with its ruthlessly murderous church.
I am suggesting this does not minimize their role from lack of numbers, I am saying the 4th chariot had twice as many horses as the other three, so there is nothing new or special showing up yet. Rome was just another diverse empire in the list of 4.
In this way I believe we can call Rome the Grisled horses of the 4th chariot without any problem whatsoever, just as the Hadley cell does not fulfill the actions of the storms of its chariot.

But then there is a unique turn of events that scripture has repeatedly shown;


The destructive Bay horses also of the 4th Chariot.

Here is where the marvel of God shows amazing;
The very strange narration of Zechariah 6 did a superb job of explaining the interconnected yet separate functions of the Hadley cell and the Storm cells that come in its scope.
But now we can see that it also perfectly explains something even harder to understand;
Which is that the 4th great beast system, i.e. diverse Empire, is composed of not just one normal empire, but another abnormal one as well, and this one does not play by the normal rules.

The one kingdom being “normal” in the ways of kingdoms is Rome, but another very scary one that can hardly be described for its unique diversity and violence, cannot be any other than the Caliphate of Islam that came after Rome, which is described by the uncell-like nature of hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons, and the like.

Rome was indeed the 4th kingdom on the earth, but did not fulfill the prophecy of the 4th beast of Iron.
The Islamic Caliphate was the 5th kingdom on the earth, but the spirit was not diverse from Rome. Therefore both the 4th and the 5th kingdoms on the earth are of the 4th great diverse beast… and still there is more because even the 5th kingdom of the Caliphate did not see the rise of 10 simultaneous kings as prophesied in Daniel 7:24, nor did it devour the whole earth, treading it down and breaking it in pieces, though it tried. Daniel 7:23, and finally the other horn (power) did not rise from the 10 as expected in Daniel 7:23-26, to accomplish what is said of it.
But this too was prophesied (Daniel 8:19-25, 10:14) and does fit the numbering order and return prophesied in Revelation 17 we will cover later.

Now don’t get lost. This is a tough one to keep straight.
If the Caliphate is the Bay horses, and Rome is the Gisled horses...


who or what is the chariot spirit/wind?!

For that answer we need to go to Daniel 10:12-13,20.
“Then said he (the angel) unto me, Fear not Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.”
Here we are given an incredible window into the supernatural domain and we learn that this angel of God was actually helping the kings of Persia while the spiritual prince of Persia resisted him. Clearly they had two different plans for Persia!
Don’t miss that in the day of Daniel’s vision, Persia was not yet the GDE. Yet this angel was fighting on behalf of those kings (but not the three yet to stand up) so diligently that he could not break loose to reach Daniel for 21 day until Michael came to help! (v.14)
We now have significant insight into what it means when Daniel 7:2 says; “behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.”
Were they striving with each other? It doesn’t seem so, just as warm and cold air bring strife in each of the global wind cells but the cells do not specifically strive with each other as much as within themselves.
It is hot and cold, good and evil that bring strife to all things. and in the striving, one GDE eventually falls and another takes its place;

After he delivered his message the angel said: “now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.” Daniel 10:20 We see that although there is only one GDE at a time, their princes were already working on their plans, and I don't think they just die after their empire falls.

So what do you suppose ended the reign of the prince of the Islamic Caliphate that followed Rome's prince in 570 and lasted until 1924 though greatly powerless beginning about 1775 when America established the united States Marine Corps for the purpose of ending the piracy of the Barbary Coast Muslim's at Tripoli. *9
I submit that it was the prince of America that strove with her side by side against the prince of Islam as our Christian founders knew that Islam was the 7th empire of Revelation 17. They knew by their recent experience that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing, but with God all things are possible!
Yet today the spirit of our government has changed sides; now in agreement with the spirits of darkness in the violent nations and turning our back to the spirit of reason that used to support the weak and helpless nations such as Israel.

It is these princes of darkness that strive with the spirits of heaven over the realms of men, and now we know what it means by saying; "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city..." Daniel 9:26
This prince is not Titus the Roman commander in charge when his troops burnt the temple. This prince that shall come is the spiritual prince of iron that rules over all the last days kingdoms of iron under the 4th great beast.

Now this sounds all too fantastic to believe except for the fact that the events of Daniel’s prophecy regarding Babylon, Persia, Greece, the death of the Messiah, and the fall of Jerusalem all played out just as he wrote it down! and the failure of Rome to fulfill the remaining prophecies until a strange return, is also hidden in the prophecies. This is very hard to ignore.

Therefore we conclude in confidence that the same spiritual “prince of iron” that controlled Rome, also controlled the Islamic Caliphate. but the Caliphate is a violence at a whole new level.
* * *

Validation?

Now to verify my theory of this blended concoction of kingdoms into one great beast we turn to the prophecy of Daniel 2, which identifies in the fuller chronological list of the GDEs, (Global Dominant Empires) that the last three kingdoms are all of the Iron Empire:
Legs of Iron = Rome
Feet of Iron and Clay = Caliphate of Islam; left and right = one and two.
Toes of Iron and Clay = greater detail (explained in book Three).

These are all shown in the Daniel 2 prophecy as “of Iron”, therefore I submit that these are the two kinds of horses in the 4th chariot; Rome and the Islamic Caliphate in two parts.

Because the 4th chariot had a unique division that the other 3 didn’t have, we should have no problem allowing that the Bay horses are also potentially divided even further, though the Zechariah 6 narration didn’t show it because they are “all bay horses”, just as Daniel 2 didn’t show it because they are “all of iron.”

Details:

Daniel 2:40 declares the fourth kingdom to be strong as Iron.
Then the next 3 verses describe the 4th kingdom of Legs, Feet, and Toes without distinctly numbering them as it did with the others.
The first three kingdoms were all numbered, and so is the 4th.
It is us who want to number individually the legs feet and toes, but this is not done in Daniel 2. The reason is because Daniel 2 is describing the nature of the 4 Beasts;
Gold, Silver, Brass, and Iron.
Though some of the iron is weakened, it still has “the strength of Iron” and therefore included in the generic nature of the Iron Empire. (Daniel 2:41-42) the text makes this clear.

Yes, the careful wording also allows for the 4th Empire of Iron to be further divided into independent chronological kingdoms shown in Revelation 17, but in Daniel 2 this distinction is not made because chronology is not the point there.
Returning to the four great beasts of Daniel 7, I declare all the iron parts are the 4th great beast.
Returning to Zechariah 6, I declare all the iron parts are the horses of the 4th chariot though distinguished there as only two parts; Rome and Caliphate.
I will later show the Caliphate to be further distinguished as two parts shown in Revelation 17, which is allowed in Zechariah 6 as there are an unknown number of Bay horses because there are an unknown number of storm cells.

Therefore I put forward that the four great beasts of Daniel 7 are:

Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome/Islamic Caliphate.

And there is still more prophecy that fits with this evidence as the four Carpenters of Zechariah 1:12-21
But my next post will lay the ground work in the preceding verses.
* * * * * * *

*1 The Striving Spirits:

“…The Four Winds of the Heaven strove upon the great sea.” Daniel 7:2

This phase is most often interpreted to mean the Mediterranean Sea, which also goes by that title. But in order for this phrase here to mean that body of water, the striving winds would have to continue for the duration of all these four empires.
Scientifically we know by Zechariah 6, that “striving” weather is the result of collision between warm and cold air.
But if this prophesy is a reference to the angels of the kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome/Caliphate, as I submit they are, then the striving of the actual winds would be irrelevant due to the thousands of years covered in these four Empires.
Such wind activity over that long of period would become “normal”, making the statement pointless.

I suggest the great sea is here representational of all humanity as allowed by Isaiah 17:12 “Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!”
Because this chapter of Daniel is clearly prophetic I also include the applicable prophetic passage in Revelation 17:1 “…I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:” and the self interpretation of the same chapter; “And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” Revelation 17:15

Prophetically waters are representational of masses of people. The more people the bigger the water;
waters, many waters, sea, and the great sea.
If the Revelation passage identifies the great volume of people, multitudes, nations and tongues as many waters, I can only conclude the great sea means the entire planet of all mankind, for there is not greater sea of humanity.

Therefore the striving of the four winds of the heaven upon the great sea, can only mean prophetically the four spirits of heaven striving over humanity through the nations.

The explanation of this interaction between realms is exampled in the moving of the Holy Spirit upon individuals; “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8
Using this example, we can begin to comprehend how the spirits of the heavens move on nations, much as the winds affect the earth. The scripture has diligently tied all these concepts together.
Today we are watching in utter amazement as nation after nation implode in turmoil for seemingly insignificant reasons when viewed historically. The “Striving” seems to be contagious…and world wide. The expanding cold air of evil is quickly causing an inversion over the warm air of righteousness.

The striving of the four winds here, ties this passage to that of Zechariah 6, “…These are the four spirits of the heavens,…”
showing that we should use the rest of the Zechariah 6 prophecy in our interpretation here.
This is the Key to correctly interpreting Daniel 7.

*2 King or Kingdom? From the Sea or the Earth?
Daniel 7:3 tells us these beasts rise from the Sea, while verse 17 tells us they rise from the Earth. Is this not a clear contradiction? No: Verse 3 explains the entities (Empires) are representationally beasts, and therefore where the beasts comes from is also explained representationally; the sea.
Prophetically the sea represents the humanity of the world and this is given attention because the “winds” of verse 2 as spirits of authorities that strive upon man resulting in the rise of empires, are not of the human realm.
In verse 17 the beasts that rise from the earth are human kings of the kingdoms that rise from the sea of nations, yet we know by verse 2 that the kingdoms are influenced by spiritual beings described as winds.

*3 The Four Great Kingdoms:
Daniel 2:36-40 Establishes the greatness of four kingdoms beginning with the greatest.
Gold representing the greatest metal was the material of the Head, also the greatest body part in an image. Then Daniel goes to extreme lengths, very near brown-nosing, to tell Nebuchadnezzar that he was indeed the greatest. But this was not brown-nosing, this was God himself through prophecy clearly beyond argument identifying Nebuchadnezzar as the greatest king/kingdom.
Silver comes right behind Gold in representational greatness, and we see this kingdom also represented as the chest and arms, right under the head as representing the next most important body part in greatness. Now today we know of other metals we determine to be greater, but this is not the point. For some reason even today in spite of science and actual value, Gold and Silver still represent 1st and 2nd in as great as you can get.
Falling behind them in greatness are Brass and Iron, and their representational body parts.
By now the greatness has been established by the previous two, therefore these next identified kingdoms of the world can rightly be accepted as the 3rd and 4th in greatness simply because they are in the list of the top four, the relational body parts are in agreement, as well as the lesser greatness of the represented metals.

*4 Greece and Persia future:
I cannot here properly cover the further distinction of the 4th Persian king from the three that stand up, but you should begin to see the numerous examples of scripture in making the last one in lists strangely unique and further defined outside the normal trend. I suggest a hypothesis that the 4th king of Persia mentioned has not yet risen in history and when he does he will by wealth and power stir up all nations against Greece. (Daniel 8:19-25) For our present study we only need the first half of the Daniel 11:2 verse, as the second half relates to a completely different context.

*5 Medo-Persia:
I find it fascinating that the prophecy of Daniel 11:2 would begin with; “And now will I shew thee the truth,…” Why would the angel telling the prophecy (Daniel 10:20) need to say that? Its not like he has made a habit of telling anything but truth!
Because he knew that history would especially muddy the waters in confusion and obscurity regarding this Medo-Persian time of history, (i.e. beast) not able to later identify the three great kings of Persia that are shown in this prophecy. And for this reason our confidence in Persia being the Bear is a bit shaky. Therefore the prophecy in Daniel 11:2 simply says; This is the truth, you can believe it or not.
Since the previous beast fits very well the King of Babylon, I choose to accept the angel’s declaration as truth, and use his testimony as my evidence for placing Persia as the bear beast.
Feel free to investigate Persian history in the effort to validate this claim, but you will soon find that search will be enormous. God knew that before it happened. So lets believe him and move on to the next beast for which we can find validating history.

Creation.com has a very good pdf file called “The Times of the Great Kings of Persia” by Charles V. Taylor, if you are inclined to study this history you may want to take the time to download it although it is hard to find. I can only get you as close as creation.com and you will have to continue from there.

It is quite difficult to track history at times due to the cacophony of various focuses, factions, and struggles blending into confusion. Just what was the actual scope and time of the Persian Empire? - many kings of Persia

*6 Do not alter prophecy:
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God himself shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:18-19
The reason why it is so important is because no matter how good intended the person is in making alterations, the alterations will fail. But in so failing the actual prophecy will be seen to fail as well because it was altered.
With such a failure God will be seen to fail.
Only God, the Creator of the reality of which he prophesied, is able to prophecy correctly! But due to the appearance of probable failure, well meaning men might be moved to remove some parts to “help God out”.
And due to events in a man’s present time, he may be inclined to make the prophecy fit his circumstances to “make” it come to pass.
These are strictly forbidden upon great punishment from God himself.
God’s Word does not need man’s help.

Am I afraid of misinterpretation?
Yes I am, because it might lead men astray.

*7 Additional information:
We are given scraps of additional information regarding the conduct of the beasts;
And frankly I have no explanation for the meaning of;
“then cried he unto me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.” Zechariah 6:6
The wording can allow for those to be Persia the Black horses that actually go into the north country, or the white horses of Greece that go after them “toward” the north country.
Does Greece quiet the spirit of Persia?
Does Persia quiet God’s Holy Spirit in the north country?
Because this is so hidden I believe it has significant importance, not as an isolated point, but may open a large area of mystery.
Presently I have no idea what it means, and must move on to complete my present course. I leave this one with you to ask of God for an explanation as you study, but anticipate the revelation to come before I am done!

*8 Rome is the 4th and last kingdom:
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;..." Daniel 9:26
Jesus the Messiah was in deed crucified, not for his own sins but for ours. and then in 70AD the soldiers of Rome conquered Jerusalem, burnt the temple, and dispersed the Jewish people fulfilling this prophecy.
The prophecy then goes on to describe the Antichrist which is confirmed in Daniel 7:23 "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon the earth, which shall diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces." and then this too goes on to describe the rise of the Antichrist from that kingdom.
It cannot be rejected that scripture declares Rome to be the 4th and last empire, but it also cannot be denied that scripture also declares Rome cannot fulfill the requirements of that last kingdom.
This conundrum is fully resolved by recognizing all these prophecies are showing that Rome is of iron and part of the last beast empire, but not without the other two parts of iron as well!

*9 The Barbary Pirates:
My previous post; The Mosque discusses this topic and contains the following related link; Barbary wars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli
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