Posts
post 052
Continued from Post Jan. 19, 2010 Titled; "Separation of Church and State"
Part 3. Our founders expected us to intentionally use religion to keep our government healthy.
God’s Help earnestly requested in the work of the Continental Congress:
“Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned… let us in the first lace… humbly and penitently implore the aid of the Almighty God whom we profess to serve - let us earnestly call and beseech him for Christ’s sake to preside in our councils.” - Elias Boudinot, President of the Continental Congress.
Only religion can stop crime before it starts:
“The precepts of philosophy laid hold of actions only… (but Jesus) pushed his scrutinizes into the heart of man, erecting his tribunal in the region of his thoughts, and purified the waters at the fountainhead.” - Thomas Jefferson
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion.”
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and a religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams
One of America’s first education laws:
From The Code of 1650:
“It being one chief project of that old deluder Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the Scriptures, as in former times by keeping them in an unknown tongue, so in these latter times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so that at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded and corrupted with false glosses of saint-seeming deceivers; and to the end that learning may not be buried in the grave of our forefathers, in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors.
It is therefore ordered that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to fifty households, shall forthwith appoint one within their town to teach all such children as shall resort to him to write and read, whose wages shall be paid either by the parents or masters of such children, or by the inhabitants general…
And it is further ordered, that when any town shall increase to the number of one hundred families or householders, they shall set up a grammer school, the master thereof being able to instruct the youth so far as they may be fitted for the university.”
The Old Deluder Act: From Records of the Governor and Company of the Massachusetts Bay in New England II: 203
Clearly this law states that the purpose of public education is that its students might have a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures, believing that Satan used the government sponsored church of England to keep the Scriptures from the common man, which resulted in the suffering of the times prior to the Reformation which they had so recently become free of.
40 years later, The 1690 Connecticut Illiteracy Law:
“This (legislature) observing that not withstanding our former orders made for the education of children… there are many persons unable to read the English tongue, and thereby incapable of reading the Holy Word of God or the good laws of this (state).”
The New England Primer:
The first and longest lasting text book in America.
First published in 1690 in Boston by Benjamin Harris, it lasted continuously until the 1900s.
The 1900 edition described the impact of the Primer:
“The New England Primer was one of the greatest books ever published. It went through innumerable editions; it reflected in a marvelous way the spirit of the age that produced it, and contributed, perhaps more than any other book except the Bible, to the molding of those sturdy generations that gave to America its liberty and its institutions.”
Our founders were educated at an early age from teachings such as are found in the New England Primer. From cover to cover the Primer is more a book of Sunday school lessons than what you would think to find in public schools. It is clear from the Primer alone that our founders had no thought of separating religion and government, because the primer shows that early Americans revered God in everything done in life and therefore expected to pass that value on to latter generations through the public schools.
A faithful reprint of the 1777 Primer can be obtained at http://www.wallbuilders.com
Although this textbook was published by a private individual, it was the staple of young children educated in government established schools.
Congress enacts the printing of the Bible:
The last major battle of the American Revolution, (the war with the British crown) ended in 1781, thus turning the idea of independence from theory to reality. With this new established freedom from the laws of England, even before England signed an official peace treaty, Congress enacted in the same year, the printing of the first English language Bible printed in America, called “The Bible of the Revolution”.
On September 12, 1782 the full congress approved this bible and 20,000 copies were published making the U.S. Congress the first American Bible Society.
Printed in the front of that bible is a Congressional Endorsement; “Resolved, that the United States in Congress Assembled… recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States.”
The Congressional Record refers to this bible as; “A neat addition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of our schools.”
Why does Congress pray each morning before work?:
After weeks of heated deliberation for the writing of the United States Constitution,
Benjamin Franklin, one of the eldest statesmen present, made a speech to George Washington, the president of the constitutional Convention:
“Mr. President: In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of Lights to illuminate our understanding? In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine protection. Our prayers, sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor…And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel… I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business.”
Benjamin Franklin June 28, 1787
It is remarkable that this man, whom today is called; ‘one of the least religious founders’ was able to invoke from memory passages of scripture from James 1:17, Genesis 11, Psalm 127:1 and Matthew 10:29 in order to make his point.
The result of this convention was a uniquely American document with ideas never before collected into a written constitution. As a result out nation has endured over 230 years, longer than any other government under a single document.
Religion in our Law schools:
James Wilson, signer of both Declaration and Constitution, an original Justice on the US Supreme Court, Started the first organized legal training in America, teaching his law school at the same time sitting on the bench of the Supreme Court.
In his legal textbook for his students he wrote:
“Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine… Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other… Our all-gracious Creator, Preserver, and Ruler has been pleased to discover and enforce His laws by a revelation given to us immediately and directly from Himself. This revelation is contained in the Holy Scriptures.” - James Wilson
Because Divine law was the basis of American law, the 10 Commandments were more frequently found in civil buildings than in religious buildings.
Fisher Ames:
A framer of the Bill of Rights, and the Congressional member who proposed the final wording of the 1st amendment as passed in 1789.
In 1801 he wrote:
“It has been the custom of late years to put a number of little books into the hands of children, containing fables and moral lessons. This is very well because it is right first to raise curiosity and then to guide…
Why then, if these books for children must be retained, as they will be, should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure; its examples, captivating and noble. The reverence for the Sacred Book that is thus early impressed lasts long, and probably, if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind.” - Fisher Ames in 1801 book titled Schoolbooks
This from the man who carefully proposed the final wording of the 1st amendment in question!
The basis of all our laws:
“The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws…”
Noah Webster’s schoolbook; ‘The History of the United States’ 1832
Supreme Court rules; Religion must be kept in our public schools:
In the generation following the founding fathers, we have an example of how the courts interpreted the intent of the founders regarding religion’s influence in the public schools.
In this case a Philadelphia school announced that it would teach morality but not religion in that it would not allow ministers on campus.
Daniel Webster argued this case before the Supreme Court.
Mr. Webster’s argument was based on the idea that this provision was an attempt to prevent religious instruction at the school. In his argument, he told the court;
“when little children were brought into the presence of the Son of God, His disciples proposed to send them away, but (Jesus) said, “Suffer little children to come unto me (Matthew 19:14). Unto me!...And that injunction is of perpetual obligation; it addresses itself today with the same earnestness and the same authority which attended its fist utterance to the Christian world. It is of force everywhere and at all times; it extends to the ends of the earth, it will reach to the end of time always and everywhere sounding in the ears of men with an… authority which nothing can supersede. “Suffer little children to come unto Me.”
Daniel Webster 1844 - ‘Mr. Webster’s speech in defense of the Christian ministry and in favor of the religious instruction of the young, Delivered in the Supreme Court of the United States February 10th 1844’ in the case; Vidal v. Girard
The Supreme Court ruled unanimously in favor of Webster’s argument, written by Justice Joseph Story the Supreme Court declared;
“Why may not the Bible, and especially the New Testament, without note or comment, be read and taught as a Divine revelation in the (schools) - Its general precepts expounded… and its glorious principles of morality inculcated? Where can the purest principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the New Testament? Where are benevolence, the love of truth, sobriety, and industry, so powerfully and irresistibly inculcated as in the Sacred Volume?”
I include this here even though this was not from the founders, because being a generation removed from the founders, it clearly shows that after the founders documents were well established, But near enough to the authors generation, this Court above any other is perhaps best qualified to show the true intent, in action, of the Laws the founders established. This case shows nearly the identical efforts of some to remove religion from the government schools that we see today, but the court ruled in favor of religion then, but opposed to religion today. In recent times the courts have clearly changed, but the law, and the intent has not.
1892 'Columbian History on Education in Kansas’ by the Kansas Teachers Association:
“If the study of the Bible is to be excluded from all State schools - if the inculcation of the principles of Christianity is to have no place in the daily program - if the worship of God is to form no part of the general exercises of these public elementary schools - then the good of the State would be better served by restoring all schools to church control.”
State Superintendent of Public Instruction 1892.
What were the three points which the writer thought important to remain in the schools? Teach the Bible.
Inculcate the principles of Christianity.
Incorporate the daily worship of God.
The founders desire to keep religion in the government institutions was so well seated that nearly 100 years after the writing of the 1st Amendment, the attempt to remove religion from public schools had not yet been successful!
We have a duty to elect Christians to public office:
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty - as well as the privilege and interest - of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John Jay - original Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
It is clear that the Christian religion has been intentionally an integral part of government from its formation, and that until recently, it has constantly fended off the perpetual attempts to remove religion from government, rather than fended off attempts to include religion in government as our present generation assumes.
What element is vital to our system?
In 1853 a group petitioned congress to separate Christian principles from government.
The House Judiciary Committee Report came back March 27, 1854
“Had the people (the founding fathers), during the Revolution, a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle… At the time of the adoption of the Constitution and its amendments, the universal sentiment was that Christianity should be encouraged, but not any one sect (denomination). In this age, there is no substitute fore Christianity... That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”
Two months later they added:
“The great vital and conservative element in our system (the thing that holds our system together) is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
Only time and limited space keeps me from adding 150 years of American history here showing that our founders were convinced that religion must remain a guiding authority in our government.
Sunday, January 31, 2010
Part 2 of 4 - Religion in Government Trial
post 051
Continued from Post Jan. 19, 2010 Titled; "Separation of Church and State"
Part 2. Our founders created our form of government based on values they intentionally got primarily from the Bible.
Government of the people, a Republic form of Government:
During the time of our government’s creation, and for centuries prior, the nearly exclusive form of government was monarchy; England, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Romania, Sweden, etc. etc. all ruled by monarchs. Where did the founders come up with the idea of the people ruling themselves by what we call a republic? Exodus 18:21. This gave the foundation of God’s plan for local, county, state, and federal levels of “government of the people”.
Separation of powers, and checks and balances:
George Washington and Alexander Hamilton acknowledged that the principles undergirding the separation of powers was the principle found in Jeremiah 17:9
The right of Private Property:
Common to all men at the time was the idea that the king owned the land and gave permission for the people to live on, and work the land for a fee.
So where did the early Americans get the idea of purchasing property from the Indians?
The founders, using biblical values, understood the concepts of private property.
Exodus 20:15-17
(It must be recognized that there were other settlers than the pilgrims, which did not hold to such views, and great strife with the Indians developed)
Uniform Immigration Laws US Constitution Article 1 section 8:
Based on Leviticus 19:34
President must be US born Article 2 section 1, US Constitution:
Based on Deuteronomy 17:15
Witnesses and Capitol Punishment Article 3 section 3, US Constitution:
Based on Deuteronomy 17:6
Prohibition against Family Attainder Article 3 section 3, US Constitution:
Based on Ezekiel 18:20
Three branches of government:
Based on Isaiah 33:22
Church Tax Exemption:
Based on Ezra 7:24
Racial Equality:
In 1619 the first slave ship sailed up the James River in Virginia, introducing slavery to America.
But when the first slave ship arrived in Massachusetts, the seat of our government’s formation, the ships officers were imprisoned and the slaves were not only freed, but returned to their homeland at the colonies expense.
This based on Acts 17:26a, Revelation 7:9
The sources behind the Declaration of Independence of 1776:
The Holy Bible and John Locke’s Two Treatises of Government
John Quincy Adams:
“The Declaration of Independence (was)…Founded upon one and the same theory of government… expounded in the writings of Locke.”
James Otis, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, Richard Henry Lee, and many others, publicly praised Locke’s work as an important source in the writing of the Declaration.
Although Locke’s book is less than 400 pages long, it refers to the bible more than 1500 times.
The principles used to achieve independence:
“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were… the general principles of Christianity... Now I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” - John Adams
The source of Republican principles:
“The brief exposition of the Constitution of the United States will unfold to young persons the principles of republican government; and … our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible.”
Noah Webster’s schoolbook; ‘The History of the United States’ 1832
Religion and government inseparably tied:
“Why is it that, next to the birth-day of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day? Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birth-day of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birth-day of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?”
Speech by John Quincy Adams - July 4, 1837
Say what? The organized society created by the Declaration of Independence, and even the very cornerstone of government itself, is established inseparable, on the precepts of Christianity? Wow!
University of Houston Study:
assembled 15,000 writings of the founding era to determine the sources where the founders got their ideas for our form of government.
After 10 years of research they isolated 3154 direct quotes and the sources of each quote.
34% of the quotes came directly out of the Bible.
Baron Charles de Montesquieu was quoted second most often with 8.3%
Sir William Blackstone was quoted third most often with 7.9%
John Locke was quoted fourth most often with 2.9%
It is even more impressive when we discover the source of these writer’s ideas;
Charles Finny was a significant revivalist preacher of the early 1800s, who got his start as a lawyer.
As a law student while studying ‘Blackstone’s commentary on the laws’, Blackstone quoted the scriptures so often that Charles Finny was converted to Christianity and became a preacher.
Religion Established by our form of Government:
Court ruling in Runkel v. Winemiller 1799
“By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing.”
This court had no problem understanding the 1st amendment to mean only no favoritism of one denomination over another by the government, as was the case in England. And not to imply that religion was to be separated from government.
This is but a mere spoonful of the abundant documented history showing how tied the foundation of our government is with religion. and not any religion but that Christian religion of Jesus Christ.
Continued from Post Jan. 19, 2010 Titled; "Separation of Church and State"
Part 2. Our founders created our form of government based on values they intentionally got primarily from the Bible.
Government of the people, a Republic form of Government:
During the time of our government’s creation, and for centuries prior, the nearly exclusive form of government was monarchy; England, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Romania, Sweden, etc. etc. all ruled by monarchs. Where did the founders come up with the idea of the people ruling themselves by what we call a republic? Exodus 18:21. This gave the foundation of God’s plan for local, county, state, and federal levels of “government of the people”.
Separation of powers, and checks and balances:
George Washington and Alexander Hamilton acknowledged that the principles undergirding the separation of powers was the principle found in Jeremiah 17:9
The right of Private Property:
Common to all men at the time was the idea that the king owned the land and gave permission for the people to live on, and work the land for a fee.
So where did the early Americans get the idea of purchasing property from the Indians?
The founders, using biblical values, understood the concepts of private property.
Exodus 20:15-17
(It must be recognized that there were other settlers than the pilgrims, which did not hold to such views, and great strife with the Indians developed)
Uniform Immigration Laws US Constitution Article 1 section 8:
Based on Leviticus 19:34
President must be US born Article 2 section 1, US Constitution:
Based on Deuteronomy 17:15
Witnesses and Capitol Punishment Article 3 section 3, US Constitution:
Based on Deuteronomy 17:6
Prohibition against Family Attainder Article 3 section 3, US Constitution:
Based on Ezekiel 18:20
Three branches of government:
Based on Isaiah 33:22
Church Tax Exemption:
Based on Ezra 7:24
Racial Equality:
In 1619 the first slave ship sailed up the James River in Virginia, introducing slavery to America.
But when the first slave ship arrived in Massachusetts, the seat of our government’s formation, the ships officers were imprisoned and the slaves were not only freed, but returned to their homeland at the colonies expense.
This based on Acts 17:26a, Revelation 7:9
The sources behind the Declaration of Independence of 1776:
The Holy Bible and John Locke’s Two Treatises of Government
John Quincy Adams:
“The Declaration of Independence (was)…Founded upon one and the same theory of government… expounded in the writings of Locke.”
James Otis, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, Richard Henry Lee, and many others, publicly praised Locke’s work as an important source in the writing of the Declaration.
Although Locke’s book is less than 400 pages long, it refers to the bible more than 1500 times.
The principles used to achieve independence:
“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were… the general principles of Christianity... Now I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” - John Adams
The source of Republican principles:
“The brief exposition of the Constitution of the United States will unfold to young persons the principles of republican government; and … our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible.”
Noah Webster’s schoolbook; ‘The History of the United States’ 1832
Religion and government inseparably tied:
“Why is it that, next to the birth-day of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day? Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birth-day of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birth-day of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?”
Speech by John Quincy Adams - July 4, 1837
Say what? The organized society created by the Declaration of Independence, and even the very cornerstone of government itself, is established inseparable, on the precepts of Christianity? Wow!
University of Houston Study:
assembled 15,000 writings of the founding era to determine the sources where the founders got their ideas for our form of government.
After 10 years of research they isolated 3154 direct quotes and the sources of each quote.
34% of the quotes came directly out of the Bible.
Baron Charles de Montesquieu was quoted second most often with 8.3%
Sir William Blackstone was quoted third most often with 7.9%
John Locke was quoted fourth most often with 2.9%
It is even more impressive when we discover the source of these writer’s ideas;
Charles Finny was a significant revivalist preacher of the early 1800s, who got his start as a lawyer.
As a law student while studying ‘Blackstone’s commentary on the laws’, Blackstone quoted the scriptures so often that Charles Finny was converted to Christianity and became a preacher.
Religion Established by our form of Government:
Court ruling in Runkel v. Winemiller 1799
“By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing.”
This court had no problem understanding the 1st amendment to mean only no favoritism of one denomination over another by the government, as was the case in England. And not to imply that religion was to be separated from government.
This is but a mere spoonful of the abundant documented history showing how tied the foundation of our government is with religion. and not any religion but that Christian religion of Jesus Christ.
Part 1 of 4 - Religion in Government Trial
post 050
Continued from Post Jan. 19, 2010 Titled; "Separation of Church and State"
A very short history:
In the 1620s-1630s the pilgrims left all they had to embark on a dangerous journey to seek not only civil liberty but also to worship God without fear of a government church in opposition.
The reformation they had just experienced was a bloody struggle between a people of faith, and a government sponsored church, whose biblical views were un-reconcilable; as epitomized by the life and writings of Martin Luther. Great persecution of “the dissenters” resulted.
The pre-reformation Church of England kept the Bible in Latin and only in the churches, thereby making it inaccessible to the common man.
The two primary concerns of the dissenters were these;
• Access of the common people to a Bible they could read themselves.
• The conforming of culture to God’s word, rather than visa versa.
The Geneva Bible was the Bible of the reformation and was the common Bible among the early settlers. With just this little history we see far more important meaning to the public paintings of the early years. The Geneva Bible is shown prominently in many of the early paintings of the pilgrims, and is clearly displayed in the huge painting of “the embarkation of the pilgrims”, which is hanging in the rotunda of the U.S. Capitol. http://www.aoc.gov/cc/photo-gallery/ptgs_rotunda.cfm
(as a side note, another of those paintings is the “Baptism of Pocahontas”, both paintings, hardly just random decoration, were placed there by a people with much attachment to the events shown.)
During the time of American settlers, before the Declaration of independence, the king of England made it unlawful for America to publish any Bible in the English language.
One of the very first acts of Congress after the Declaration of Independence was to enact law allowing the printing of a Bible in the English language, effectively making congress the first American Bible Society.
Part 1. Our founding fathers were in deed religious, and believers in a responsibility to their Creator.
Patrick Henry:
“The Bible is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.”
Jefferson’s Danbury letter:
“I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man,”
Dr. Benjamin Rush:
“The Bible…should be read in our schools in preference to all other books from it’s containing the greatest portion of that kind of knowledge which is calculated to produce private and public happiness.”
Daniel Webster:
“To the free and universal reading of the Bible… men (are) much indebted for right views of civil liberty. The Bible is… a book which teaches man his own individual responsibility, his own dignity, and his equality with his fellow man.”
Elias Boudinot:
“Were you to ask me to recommend the most valuable book in the world, I should fix on the Bible as the most instructive - both to the wise and the ignorant.”
The Founders and Administrators of the first American Bible Society:
Elias Boudinot: President of Congress during the American Revolution, a Framer of the Bill of Rights, and of the first Attorneys to practice before the Supreme Court.
John Jay: the original Chief Justice to the Supreme Court, author of the Federalist Papers.
Matthew Clarkson: Major General in the American Revolution.
Smith Thompson: Secretary of the Navy, and Justice on the US Supreme Court.
John Langdon: Signer of the US Constitution, and Governor of New Hampshire.
Caleb Strong: member of the Constitutional Convention, and Governor of Massachusetts.
Bushrod Washington: US Supreme Court Justice.
William Worth: Attorney General of the United States.
Charles C. Pinkney: Major General in the American Revolution, and Constitution signer.
John Quincy Adams: President of the United States
John Marshal: Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.
Noah Webster:
Used a high percentage of Bible verses to define the words of his 1828 An American Dictionary of the English Language.
John Quincy Adams: Secretary of State, United States Representative, US Senator, President of the US.
“The first and almost the only book deserving of universal attention is the Bible. I have myself for many years made it a practice to read the Bible once every year. I have always endeavored to read it with the same spirit and with the same temper of mind which I now recommend to you: that is, with the intention and desire that it may contribute to my advance in wisdom and virtue.”
John Jay: original Supreme Court Chief Justice, President of Congress during the revolution, writer of the Federalist Papers.
“The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the Word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.”
John Adams: signer of the Declaration of Independence, and the bill of rights, law maker and attorney, vice president and president of the United States.
“Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited… what a utopia - what a paradise would this region be.”
I have not included here, isolated unknown men with ideas I wish to push. all these men were greatly influential in the creation of the United States.
The difficulty is not in finding enough data, the hard part is leaving out so much! Being a blog I find it hard to limit my input to only as much as the average person will read.
I have shown that the thinking of our founders was rooted in the Bible. There is abundant documentation showing that the pilgrims and early Americans spent several hours a day reading and studying the Bible.
It was not a nice book they read for an hour on Sunday as a religious duty, it was a life manual, practical for day to day living. They were very familiar with the writings and teaching of the bible and gave much honor to the importance of following it.
The Supreme Court of 1892:
The intent of the founding fathers and the 1st amendment was so sure that in 1892 the Supreme Court ruled in; the Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States
“No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people… This is a Christian nation.”
To give explanation for this finding they provided 87 different historical precedents that this was indeed a Christian nation. They quoted the founding fathers, the acts of the founding fathers, the acts of the Congresses, the acts of the State governments, and others. The Court noted they could quote many more but found 87 to be sufficient to establish clear precedents.
I rest my first point on the findings of the Supreme Court.
Continued from Post Jan. 19, 2010 Titled; "Separation of Church and State"
A very short history:
In the 1620s-1630s the pilgrims left all they had to embark on a dangerous journey to seek not only civil liberty but also to worship God without fear of a government church in opposition.
The reformation they had just experienced was a bloody struggle between a people of faith, and a government sponsored church, whose biblical views were un-reconcilable; as epitomized by the life and writings of Martin Luther. Great persecution of “the dissenters” resulted.
The pre-reformation Church of England kept the Bible in Latin and only in the churches, thereby making it inaccessible to the common man.
The two primary concerns of the dissenters were these;
• Access of the common people to a Bible they could read themselves.
• The conforming of culture to God’s word, rather than visa versa.
The Geneva Bible was the Bible of the reformation and was the common Bible among the early settlers. With just this little history we see far more important meaning to the public paintings of the early years. The Geneva Bible is shown prominently in many of the early paintings of the pilgrims, and is clearly displayed in the huge painting of “the embarkation of the pilgrims”, which is hanging in the rotunda of the U.S. Capitol. http://www.aoc.gov/cc/photo-gallery/ptgs_rotunda.cfm
(as a side note, another of those paintings is the “Baptism of Pocahontas”, both paintings, hardly just random decoration, were placed there by a people with much attachment to the events shown.)
During the time of American settlers, before the Declaration of independence, the king of England made it unlawful for America to publish any Bible in the English language.
One of the very first acts of Congress after the Declaration of Independence was to enact law allowing the printing of a Bible in the English language, effectively making congress the first American Bible Society.
Part 1. Our founding fathers were in deed religious, and believers in a responsibility to their Creator.
Patrick Henry:
“The Bible is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.”
Jefferson’s Danbury letter:
“I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man,”
Dr. Benjamin Rush:
“The Bible…should be read in our schools in preference to all other books from it’s containing the greatest portion of that kind of knowledge which is calculated to produce private and public happiness.”
Daniel Webster:
“To the free and universal reading of the Bible… men (are) much indebted for right views of civil liberty. The Bible is… a book which teaches man his own individual responsibility, his own dignity, and his equality with his fellow man.”
Elias Boudinot:
“Were you to ask me to recommend the most valuable book in the world, I should fix on the Bible as the most instructive - both to the wise and the ignorant.”
The Founders and Administrators of the first American Bible Society:
Elias Boudinot: President of Congress during the American Revolution, a Framer of the Bill of Rights, and of the first Attorneys to practice before the Supreme Court.
John Jay: the original Chief Justice to the Supreme Court, author of the Federalist Papers.
Matthew Clarkson: Major General in the American Revolution.
Smith Thompson: Secretary of the Navy, and Justice on the US Supreme Court.
John Langdon: Signer of the US Constitution, and Governor of New Hampshire.
Caleb Strong: member of the Constitutional Convention, and Governor of Massachusetts.
Bushrod Washington: US Supreme Court Justice.
William Worth: Attorney General of the United States.
Charles C. Pinkney: Major General in the American Revolution, and Constitution signer.
John Quincy Adams: President of the United States
John Marshal: Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.
Noah Webster:
Used a high percentage of Bible verses to define the words of his 1828 An American Dictionary of the English Language.
John Quincy Adams: Secretary of State, United States Representative, US Senator, President of the US.
“The first and almost the only book deserving of universal attention is the Bible. I have myself for many years made it a practice to read the Bible once every year. I have always endeavored to read it with the same spirit and with the same temper of mind which I now recommend to you: that is, with the intention and desire that it may contribute to my advance in wisdom and virtue.”
John Jay: original Supreme Court Chief Justice, President of Congress during the revolution, writer of the Federalist Papers.
“The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the Word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.”
John Adams: signer of the Declaration of Independence, and the bill of rights, law maker and attorney, vice president and president of the United States.
“Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited… what a utopia - what a paradise would this region be.”
I have not included here, isolated unknown men with ideas I wish to push. all these men were greatly influential in the creation of the United States.
The difficulty is not in finding enough data, the hard part is leaving out so much! Being a blog I find it hard to limit my input to only as much as the average person will read.
I have shown that the thinking of our founders was rooted in the Bible. There is abundant documentation showing that the pilgrims and early Americans spent several hours a day reading and studying the Bible.
It was not a nice book they read for an hour on Sunday as a religious duty, it was a life manual, practical for day to day living. They were very familiar with the writings and teaching of the bible and gave much honor to the importance of following it.
The Supreme Court of 1892:
The intent of the founding fathers and the 1st amendment was so sure that in 1892 the Supreme Court ruled in; the Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States
“No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people… This is a Christian nation.”
To give explanation for this finding they provided 87 different historical precedents that this was indeed a Christian nation. They quoted the founding fathers, the acts of the founding fathers, the acts of the Congresses, the acts of the State governments, and others. The Court noted they could quote many more but found 87 to be sufficient to establish clear precedents.
I rest my first point on the findings of the Supreme Court.
Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Continued:
Regarding my previous post, and my challenge:
post 049
My argument must first show that our founding fathers were in deed deeply religious, and believers in a responsibility to their creator. This must be shown to establish the mindframe of those who created our original form of Government. A godless people and a religious people have completely differing views of where security and happiness originate, and how a nation must be run. They have completely differing views of what makes a nation successful.
Then I will show that our founders created our form of government based on values they intentionally got primarily from the Bible. Showing this will establish that our founders believed that conforming to scriptures would give us the most successful form of government they could.
Finally I will show that our founders expected us to intentionally use religion to keep our government healthy. Beyond a mere preference, I will show our founders believed that we must maintain our government under the guidelines of scripture.
I will show additionally that our founders were convinced, if religion was to be removed from our government, it would fall.
At the end, if I can successfully show the above 4 points, the conclusion must be made that our founders did in fact intend religion to be rooted securely and permanently in our government. The correct interpretation of the first Amendment must be made with this understanding of the men who framed it.
It must be remembered that our present choice, to accept or reject a responsibility to our creator, is another issue. To confuse our present ideology, with the beliefs of our founders, will make it impossible to determine their intent, and therefore make it impossible to determine if their design was successful or not.
You may earnestly disagree with the founders in this matter, but that is not the issue in this discussion.
post 049
My argument must first show that our founding fathers were in deed deeply religious, and believers in a responsibility to their creator. This must be shown to establish the mindframe of those who created our original form of Government. A godless people and a religious people have completely differing views of where security and happiness originate, and how a nation must be run. They have completely differing views of what makes a nation successful.
Then I will show that our founders created our form of government based on values they intentionally got primarily from the Bible. Showing this will establish that our founders believed that conforming to scriptures would give us the most successful form of government they could.
Finally I will show that our founders expected us to intentionally use religion to keep our government healthy. Beyond a mere preference, I will show our founders believed that we must maintain our government under the guidelines of scripture.
I will show additionally that our founders were convinced, if religion was to be removed from our government, it would fall.
At the end, if I can successfully show the above 4 points, the conclusion must be made that our founders did in fact intend religion to be rooted securely and permanently in our government. The correct interpretation of the first Amendment must be made with this understanding of the men who framed it.
It must be remembered that our present choice, to accept or reject a responsibility to our creator, is another issue. To confuse our present ideology, with the beliefs of our founders, will make it impossible to determine their intent, and therefore make it impossible to determine if their design was successful or not.
You may earnestly disagree with the founders in this matter, but that is not the issue in this discussion.
Wednesday, January 20, 2010
Let the trial begin
post 048
Is our national form of government built on faith, or was it created to be Godless?
I am pleased to have the comment posted by Mr. Indeap regarding my last post.
I would encourage everyone to read it, It is well written and presents a very popular view of the foundational values of our government.
Mr. Indeap's profile indicates that he is a lawyer and so I would love the challenge to debate logically this topic.
Regardless of his, yours, or my personal views, I encourage each of us to remain civil and respectful of each others rights to opinions. I am not a lawyer and have practiced no law, but I like to think logically in the effort to understand what is true. Because this is a blog, I will work hard to reduce my opinion to as concise as possible.
In an effort to give fair and open discussion I am posting this before I begin working up my supporting evidence to my view. I would like to see Mr. Indeap take the time to support his view as well if he so choose.
So to begin, lets make the challenge and argument clear:
We both agree that the law has at least the two fold intent and purpose of keeping the government from giving preference to any particular establishment of religion, and from infringing on the religious rights of the people. We base this agreement primarily on the amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”
We are presently debating if the law intended to actually prohibit any religious encroachment into government.
Mr. Indeap believes that; “The Amendment constrains only the government not to promote or otherwise take steps toward establishment of religion.”
And that;
“Efforts to transform our secular government into some form of religion-government partnership should be resisted by every patriot.”
Whereas I contend our founders intended that our government was, and should remain, under the moral constraints of wholesome religion through religious people.
And that in no way should religion be kept out of government.
I will go further and suggest that every patriot should feel it his duty to keep religion and religious values a primary foundation of our government.
If this contention of views is accurately described, I will proceed with my argument in my next post.
* * * * * * *
Is our national form of government built on faith, or was it created to be Godless?
I am pleased to have the comment posted by Mr. Indeap regarding my last post.
I would encourage everyone to read it, It is well written and presents a very popular view of the foundational values of our government.
Mr. Indeap's profile indicates that he is a lawyer and so I would love the challenge to debate logically this topic.
Regardless of his, yours, or my personal views, I encourage each of us to remain civil and respectful of each others rights to opinions. I am not a lawyer and have practiced no law, but I like to think logically in the effort to understand what is true. Because this is a blog, I will work hard to reduce my opinion to as concise as possible.
In an effort to give fair and open discussion I am posting this before I begin working up my supporting evidence to my view. I would like to see Mr. Indeap take the time to support his view as well if he so choose.
So to begin, lets make the challenge and argument clear:
We both agree that the law has at least the two fold intent and purpose of keeping the government from giving preference to any particular establishment of religion, and from infringing on the religious rights of the people. We base this agreement primarily on the amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”
We are presently debating if the law intended to actually prohibit any religious encroachment into government.
Mr. Indeap believes that; “The Amendment constrains only the government not to promote or otherwise take steps toward establishment of religion.”
And that;
“Efforts to transform our secular government into some form of religion-government partnership should be resisted by every patriot.”
Whereas I contend our founders intended that our government was, and should remain, under the moral constraints of wholesome religion through religious people.
And that in no way should religion be kept out of government.
I will go further and suggest that every patriot should feel it his duty to keep religion and religious values a primary foundation of our government.
If this contention of views is accurately described, I will proceed with my argument in my next post.
* * * * * * *
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Separation of Church and State
post 047
Dear Fox and Friends,
On your show aired January 19, in the year of our Lord 2010,
you asked; Do we think coded scripture references on our military rifle scopes violates separation of Church and state?
Seams sort of an ironic question when clarified with a date like this, doesn't it?
* * *
You base your question from a mistaken assumption that the constitution requires a separation of church and state.
There is no such separation found anywhere in the U.S. Constitution, It's Amendments, The Bill of Rights, or any other founding document.
According to our constitution, our government CANNOT prohibit the free exercise of religion.
The scope manufacturer is exercising that right.
United States Constitution - Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Sincerely,
Kyle Ponsford
Haines, Alaska
Sent to Friends@foxnews.com on January 19, in the year of our Lord 2010
-------------------
I am baffled to continue to hear "Separation of Church and State" still quoted as if it has any legitimacy in our founding documents.
If this phrase is not found anywhere in our founding documents, where did the phrase come from?
It was taken out of context from a letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Church as follows:
"To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
(Bold type added)
It is clear in Mr. Jefferson's letter that he intended to comfort the people of the Danbury Church that Government would NOT BE ALLOWED to restrict religious freedom in any way. Today his phrase is taken completely out of context to promote the very thing his letter intended to oppose.
* * * * * * *
Dear Fox and Friends,
On your show aired January 19, in the year of our Lord 2010,
you asked; Do we think coded scripture references on our military rifle scopes violates separation of Church and state?
Seams sort of an ironic question when clarified with a date like this, doesn't it?
* * *
You base your question from a mistaken assumption that the constitution requires a separation of church and state.
There is no such separation found anywhere in the U.S. Constitution, It's Amendments, The Bill of Rights, or any other founding document.
According to our constitution, our government CANNOT prohibit the free exercise of religion.
The scope manufacturer is exercising that right.
United States Constitution - Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Sincerely,
Kyle Ponsford
Haines, Alaska
Sent to Friends@foxnews.com on January 19, in the year of our Lord 2010
-------------------
I am baffled to continue to hear "Separation of Church and State" still quoted as if it has any legitimacy in our founding documents.
If this phrase is not found anywhere in our founding documents, where did the phrase come from?
It was taken out of context from a letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Church as follows:
"To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
(Bold type added)
It is clear in Mr. Jefferson's letter that he intended to comfort the people of the Danbury Church that Government would NOT BE ALLOWED to restrict religious freedom in any way. Today his phrase is taken completely out of context to promote the very thing his letter intended to oppose.
* * * * * * *
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